HEY THERE!
Lesson Number One when making a claim: CITE YOUR SOURCES. This ensures that you actually have done some research before sensational claims are made.
If you want to skip a dry history lesson, the links are down at the bottom, and feel free to scroll down to the end to learn more.
So, a bit of backstory: I was tagged (again) in a video on TikTok, where the creator in question went on about "Murderous Horse and Sea Peoples that we know NOTHING about who wiped out ENTIRE CIVILIZATIONS. WE ONLY KNOW BECAUSE OF LETTERS THAT WERE WRITTEN. Letters that essentially say "HELP the horse people are killing us!".
Now, I responded to a prior video by saying "Hey, we actually do know quite alot about these Horse Peoples, Here are some of them from 2500BCE to the 13th century CE". I also was quick to point out that it was preposterous that NO ONE survived these events, because we wouldn't have the stories to begin with if that was the case.
I have been asked to confirm now a second video, and that is why we are here now!
First thing: These "letters" and accounts about the Horse and Sea peoples from the anguished victims before they died? Don't exist. At very least, I cannot find them. Which is odd, but I will get back to tell you why it is odd. Either way, a claim with no source. That is a problem.
The second thing that comes up when I consider this: if the Horse and Sea peoples killed everyone, why are there carved STONE reliefs (you don't just "quick scribble" out a stone relief when your city is getting destroyed) that not only name the peoples (during the reign of Ramses II), but also recount victory over them?
And why is there no evidence of MASSIVE cultural disruption? Archaeologically speaking, there is no abrupt change in cultural material. Steady evolution of culture, artifacts and architecture and cultural objects and writing systems and religious forms is visible and expected, as well as the introductions and eventual adoption of new systems and practices (not to mention actual cultural accounts that have survived: none of which wail about horrible and apocalyptical fates), and the changes in those cultural markers fail to show massive disruption. This disruption would be incredibly distinct if the "Horse Peoples" destroyed and took over the sedentary peoples because the nature of those two cultures being so incredibly different.
Next thing is a big one: if these Horse Peoples and cultures where SO big and SO powerful to "totally wipe out" places like Sumar and Akkadia, why is it we know "NOTHING" about them. We are talking about troop and animal movements and material goods and refuse and trash and burials and all this other evidence that archaeologists can use to identify past people and events. Also, when an invading culture, you know, invades, they BRING THEIR CULTURE WITH THEM. They bring different clothing, and food, and materials and building forms, and if they totally wiped out the previous civilizations, why then does the previous culture continue to be visible? For centuries?
We are talking THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of individuals on the move and causing changes to their environment all the way from the steppe to the Persian Gulf and all these other places that were supposedly wiped out. Today, ten guys are hard pressed to clean up a camp site of trash from a weekend of fishing and they know better. Why is it then these "Unknown" horse cultures have no archaeological evidence of them appearing, especially in the land from whence they came? How do ten THOUSAND riders and their horses leave no trace? Curious...
The Sea Peoples also have the same sort of questions attached to them. There is minimal "evidence" that the Sea Peoples were these massive, devastating groups that wiped out everyone in their path.
Example: The Vikings, thousands of years later, during their "reign of terror", caused all sorts of destruction, but not only did not destroy everything in total, apocalyptic terms (They did not wipe Paris or Lindisfarne from history) and they left DISTINCT and OBVIOUS archaeological evidence and cultural distinction all over Europe, into North America, and into the Mediterranean and the middle east. Not bad for a loosely conglomeration of tribes, groups and clans that joined forces and went for a European raiding vacation.
SO, why is it that the "Sea Peoples", who supposedly destroyed and wiped out civilizations all over the Med, leave NO trace and we know NOTHING about them?
Well, all those curious questions about "where is the evidence of these horse and sea peoples?" is an easy answer: We actually DO know about them! A lot! There are nine separate cultures attributed to the "Sea Peoples", with room to continue learning more! Remember that carved relief I mentioned from the time of Ramses II? It NAMES one of these groups that make up the sea peoples, and Ramses II is not the only source, with other kings and rulers describing the Sea Peoples and naming them: There are in fact, seven different accounts. Ironically, these accounts come AFTER everyone was supposedly killed. Yes, they illustrate the danger and difficulty of fighting the sea people, but if you all die and are wiped out, who is writing this post action report? Even stranger, why are these accounts highlighting the Egyptians winning?
The same goes for the Horse Peoples all over the middle east who supposedly are "totally destroying" everything. There is a term, "Umman Manda", from the old Akkadian vernacular that means "The horde from who knows where". VERY SPOOKY and terrifying, right? Except for some small details: the sort that uses the term "Umman Manda" and "Cimmerians" or "Scythians" or "Medes" INTERCHANGABLY. Those accounts essentially say "First we didn't know who they were and then we got to know who they were." Which, if you have been paying attention, takes away the "We know nothing about them or who they are."
Oh, and you recall the Medes, who are a part of this "Umman Manda"? Yes, we actually know immense things about them. Like they defeat Babylon, their king Cyrus the Great becomes head of this massive empire, and his Great-Grandson is the antagonist and punching bag for the greatest and most well known military action in western human history: King Xerxes.
You know, Xerxes, whose army was stalled at Thermopylae by "300" Spartans......(which itself is a farce: the Spartans did not face the Persians alone, they fought a rear guard action to allow the greek army to escape. They did not shoulder all of it.)
The Point to all of this though is this: WE DO KNOW. The picture may be a bit fuzzy through the historical veil, and we may still be piecing things together and learning more all the time, but knowing 50% of something is a hell of a lot more than knowing NOTHING.
I really could go on, asking why, how, who, where and when, but then I would be writing a book. Am I denying that these people did not wreak havoc, destroy small groups, shift the balance of power, and ally together or with other empires or kings to take over their neighbors? Not at all: it is well known the horrifying nature of humanity towards itself. Genghis Khan, during his time, is thought to be responsible for the deaths of 38-40 MILLION people across the Asiatic continent, the middle east, and eastern Europe: And it is well known that he had no issue with completely wiping out individual culture groups: Of these facts, I do not argue.
What I argue is these notions that we know NOTHING about these peoples or events. I argue against the sensationalizing of these notions of "total, apocalyptic, mysterious destruction" brought on by "mysterious, unknown people". Its misinformation, and it is a very small skip for the fringe groups to take these statements, claim them as fact, and use them as proof to prove their various fantasies and agendas.
And it all comes back to the point that you have to CITE YOUR SOURCES.
Which I have done: I have been looking into this for nearly a week before I made my reply. Sorry if you thought I was ignoring you, @zaque868.
SOURCES: Note, Wikipedia is not looked on by the academic or professional communities as a serious source, but I am using it here as one for this simple reason: Wikipedia has CITATIONS. Sources that these articles draw information from, and to abide by copyright laws and avoid plagiarism accusations, they have their resources, reference material and citations attached at the bottom of the page like EVERY professional paper or article. They also have convenient links that allow you to look into things further, and those further thing pages have links and references, etc. and so on. So read up the quick Wikipedia conglomeration, and then look at the individual sources for even more knowledge!!!! Without further ranting....
Eurasian Horse Peoples: Many, Many groups in here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_nomads
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomadic_empire
The Sea Peoples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/10/who-were-the-sea-people/135782#:~:text=The%20historical%20narrative%20for%20identifying,Teresh%2C%20the%20Tjeker%2C%20and%20the
Sumer/Sumeria and Akkadia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer#Fall_and_transmission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_Empire
The Gutian, or Gutani: A Horse culture that DID invade and took over Akkadian before becoming sedentary by becoming Kings of this civilization, and who we know about. And no, They didn't kill everyone.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_people
The "Umman Manda", a generalized Akkadian term for these Horse mounted societies. They are documented, their identities postulated and known, and the term further used to identify the Medes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umman_Manda
The Medes, who would become the Persian Empire, and who were related to/referred to as the "Umman Manda".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes
Cyrus the Great: Really, you can't talk about this point in history or this region without looking at him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great
The Assyrians: an empire that regularly defeated EVERYONE during their reign and used "horse peoples" in their army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Assyrian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Assyrian_Empire
The Late Bronze Age Collapse: actually goes into all the theories and evidence that points to a collapse of the Bronze Age into the Iron Age, and how it didn't happen overnight or solely because of these Sea/Horse Peoples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse
AND THIS IS BY NO MEANS COMPLETE. Just figured I've flogged this particular subject enough.
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